Is Getting Canceled a One Way Ticket Out of Town? - S03E06

On this week’s show we are talking about cancel culture, who get's canceled, why some people never learn, and if it really is a one way ticket out of town or if there's a way back to where you were before.

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DISCALIMER:
The views expressed on the Hey Let Me Ask You Something Podcast are solely the opinions of your hosts Kristin Wood and Ralph Andracchio and are based on their years of practical and clinical experience. These opinions do not constitute any kind of advice, diagnosis, or treatment of any mental, physical, or emotional issues. If you are having an emergency or any serious ongoing situations please contact your local hospital or a trusted professional.

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Transcript

The Hey Let Me Ask You Something Podcast
Season 03
Episode 06
Is Getting Canceled a One Way Ticket Out of Town?

[MUSIC INTRO PLAYS]

Kristin Wood  
Hey folks, it's Kristin and you're listening to the Hey Let Me Ask You Something Podcast, The show dedicated to inspiring more people to ask more questions and have more interesting conversations. On this week's show. Ralph and I are talking about cancel culture. And if it really is a one way ticket out of town,

Ralph Andracchio  
I think if you have a voice that the public is listening to, you have a responsibility to give them correct information.

Kristin Wood  
They were a kid and they've grown and are not that person. Just like I like to think I've grown and I'm very different in many many ways.

Ralph Andracchio  
And if somebody calls you out I don't think it's on them to say and here's why 

Kristin Wood  
But it shouldn't fall on people in that group to then have to take continually teach others

Ralph Andracchio  
Why is hitting a nerve for you like why are you so offended by me saying we have to call each other out.

Kristin Wood  
The best way for you to help us inspire more conversations and easily find more of our killer episodes is to hit that subscribe button and share the show with your friends. And check us out on YouTube and Instagram. And remember, we love that you're listening but this show is for entertainment and we are not your therapist or your coach. We are not providing professional advice either from us or our guests. Give the full disclaimer in the show notes a once over for more info on that All right, let's start the conversation. 

Ralph Andracchio  
What is what song is that?

Kristin Wood  
I have no idea

Kristin Wood  
Good evening 

Ralph Andracchio  
Good evening folks. Whenever you're listening to this. Wow. Another week 

Kristin Wood  
Another week. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Another another week in the timeless void of winter. I can't wait for it to be warm. Again. At some point. Well it is it is 50 degrees today but still it's going down to like 20 or something.

Kristin Wood  
Well, I play tennis outside today and it was so nice. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Bless you. 

Kristin Wood  
No, it was like really nice because still layer lined I've lined shirts and pants. And we play in the sun's on you. So it just feels good to be outside. It's like, yeah, we're all doing a lot if anyone's exercising. It's a lot of indoor exercising although I have seen those crazy, crazy. I assume those very bold people 

Ralph Andracchio  
Good save 

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, save I'm a therapist now. Bold people running outside in shorts when it was 24 degrees. That was a little good for them. So anyway, long story short, most people are inside but it does but I can understand about those individuals that are continuing to run and do whatever outside is that it feels really good to just the fresh air if you're dressed appropriately. 

Ralph Andracchio  
I'm sure I've I don't know if I've ever seen anybody play tennis in long pants. Is that possible?

Kristin Wood  
Yes. What I have is well they number one, they have ones that are like the pants and then the skirts over top. They just have a long pant underneath rather than little shorts. But what I've been doing is they're just leggings that I have lined in that line and they have the pockets on the side. Like people put their phone if they're not playing tennis and they're wearing and you put your phone and they're your wallet, And that way you can have somewhere to put the tennis balls because you need to have pockets when you're playing tennis for the sake of the whole...

Ralph Andracchio  
Pockets for the balls. 

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, because otherwise it's very annoying.

Ralph Andracchio  
Okay, yeah, cuz I the reason I would be uncomfortable playing tennis is because I always just see people in shorts and T shirts playing. I'm like, No, thank you, especially when it's like 40 to 20 degrees outside.

Kristin Wood  
No, there's pants involved in the wintertime.

Ralph Andracchio  
Okay, um, I'm just making sure I know I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar with any sports, to be honest. But tennis especially.

Kristin Wood  
I think you just have to get the layering down to the right like I feel like I'm pretty good and I kind of know and I wear several layers and then I just peel them off or like sometimes I'll be like hot I'll take my coat my fleece off and then later maybe I'm not moving as much to get chilly. I put it back on. Just have multiple layers on. I've I think I've mastered it.

Ralph Andracchio  
It just seems like a warm weather sport to me. 

Kristin Wood  
It is except for diehards, like me and the people I was playing with today.

Ralph Andracchio  
Have you ever played when it's like snowing outside.

Kristin Wood  
No but I played on last weekend and it was 25 degrees. And that was a little much I was just like those bold runners.

Ralph Andracchio  
No thank you

Kristin Wood  
that was a little much.

Ralph Andracchio  
I am okay with that. Yeah, no, I just started. I just started walking again. I would walk every morning with with Dan we would do like a 45 minute walk because we're adorable.

Kristin Wood  
They really are the story he told me earlier very adorable.

Ralph Andracchio  
But we stopped because it got too cold outside. But now I started again because it's like, you miss it. Like your brain misses it. Your body misses it. It's a healthy habit that doesn't cost anything and pays you back in a multitude of ways. So if you can get outside get some fresh air tool around the city wherever you're at.

Kristin Wood  
Some people who are listening are in warmer weather. So none of what we're talking about is relevant.

Ralph Andracchio  
Jealous. That's as soon as I have enough money saved up. I'm buying a house somewhere warm. So when it gets cold, we're traveling down to our other house.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I want to be a snowbird that can be here in the summer and you want to get like out of here. Go somewhere warm and then come back. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Get your snowbird wings they're like they're like the wings that a pilot gives you when you visit the cockpit. Which never happens anymore. I just dated myself because that that hasn't happened in like 80 years. 

Kristin Wood  
Do they still were those pins I haven't been on a plane and while 

Ralph Andracchio  
I need to make friends with a pilot. Am I friends with a pilot, I don't know if I know any pilots.

Kristin Wood  
I had a client I think whose husband was a pilot. That's as far as I can.

Ralph Andracchio  
It seems like you think it was like a very glamorous thing like flying jet all over the world. But really, it's like a lot of work

Kristin Wood  
Hard work. A lot hours in hotel rooms and rolly rolling suitcases. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah. How'd we get on that?

Kristin Wood  
I don't know. If we just free talked for like an hour. Who knows where we would end like if we really had no topic or question 

Ralph Andracchio  
We do have a topic. 

Kristin Wood  
We do. We promise we never come without one.

Ralph Andracchio  
We never come unprepared. Yeah, this is gonna be our last guestless episode in a while because we have two guests coming up. 

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I haven't confirmed three two but March 2 yet, but 

Ralph Andracchio  
I'm glad you clarified. 

Kristin Wood  
I do not know why I said three two 

Ralph Andracchio  
Niner seven five. 

Kristin Wood  
But we do like no, definitely next week. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Okay, good. Yeah, we have a lot of good stuff lined up. So but I do enjoy when it's just us talking about stuff because I feel like we can dig in a little bit more things. Speaking of digging into things, topic for today. Question for today. Since everything is happening, well, I'm dating this episode, but it's fixed in time now everything that's happening with Spotify and Joe Rogan and you know people wanting him canceled and artists pulling their music off of the platform. We are on Spotify, as well, but we're still there. We have point 000 1% of the audience so we're killing it killing it. We're killing it killing it. But it's it's an interesting I think canceled cultures been around for a while now. Which I think is also a misnomer. I don't agree with the term cancel culture. I think it's a little bit too general and derivative and final. So I was thinking today and we talked about it before we started recording and it's it's an interesting topic of why cancel somebody in the first place. What purpose does that serve? And if somebody is canceled, can they come back from the canceling? Is this like a one way ticket out of town? Or is there a way to get back into the good graces of the public? And is there any need to and you know, why cancel at all? I know there's a ton of questions in there but

Kristin Wood  
And I think there's no one answer. 

Ralph Andracchio  
There's no one answer. 

Kristin Wood  
No. I was just think trying to think of somebody that had been canceled that came back. 

Ralph Andracchio  
I can't think of anybody. 

Kristin Wood  
I was thinking about Roseanne Barr back before the recent cancel, 

Ralph Andracchio  
She came back and then she was right out the door. 

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I feel like she back in the day. earlier days. Maybe it wasn't on Roseanne per se but I feel like something really big happened and I'm not remembering what it is.

Ralph Andracchio  
She sang the national anthem. 

Kristin Wood  
Oh, that was yeah, that was it

Ralph Andracchio  
Sang is sang is doing a lot of heavy lifting. In that sentence. The word sang

Kristin Wood  
Okay, so that was so she was like a mockery or people felt it was a mockery of. So that okay, so she she may be an example, 

Ralph Andracchio  
She came back a couple of times. 

Kristin Wood  
She got a couple of chances to come back, And now I don't know about that anymore. But

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, I think it's I think it's a good place to start at the beginning with like, why cancel somebody in the first place? Like where did that? Where does that start like, and I get it if you're and it doesn't even have to be somebody famous I think just in general, if you say or do something completely ridiculous and you know, beyond the pale of what's expected of somebody in polite society. You I think you do need a timeout you know? Why don't we just call it timeouts giving somebody a timeout. I like that instead of canceled.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I don't know. There's so many layers. So many things percolating in my head and going things firing

Ralph Andracchio  
Just just jump in whenever you...

Kristin Wood  
I don't know where to I, I don't know. I mean, a lot of people don't believe in in at all. They believe in freedom of speech or freedom. Yeah, I guess. And then there's obviously the other whole other side of the pendulum swings the other way. Or people are like, Oh, no, if you're gonna offend an entire group of people or do something, then you should be shut down. Right. So what warrants and does anything warrant. Um, I can't I can't think of it outside of the context of somebody famous for some reason, so maybe you need to help me with that. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, I mean, 

Kristin Wood  
well that's what my brain's at. 

Ralph Andracchio  
I mean, that you can find examples of it on social media on Twitter or Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, wherever like when somebody when somebody has a following and people are listening to what they say. You know, people have said things that are ridiculous. And then there's a whole other group of people that says you're canceled, get out, you know, and I see it. First of all, the First Amendment thing I always I always want to make sure that people are aware of the First Amendment in the United States. The First Amendment of the Constitution protects the citizens from Congress, making any laws that curtail a citizens freedom of speech. So the government writ large the government cannot tell the citizens what they can and cannot say, that's the first one. Anybody else can say Shut up. You're dumb. Like that's, that's a right we all have Yes, I have the right to say whatever I want into a megaphone, but everybody every other citizen has the right to say shut up and throw tomatoes at me. Because that's the way the United States works. So you know, hiding behind the First Amendment a lot of times I think is bogus, because it protects you from the government, not from other people, not from private companies and all the all the platforms all the social media platforms are private companies. Yes, they are a public platform where people can post what they want, but you know, somebody saying, oh, you can't take me off this platform. It's you stepping on my freedom of speech. No. You're not they're not there. It's their company. They can kick off whoever they want for any reason.

Kristin Wood  
I don't know if I'm going in the right direction we want to go but unfortunately though, I feel like so much of that is political and money. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh sure you're absolutely right. Yeah. 

Kristin Wood  
And it's not even about right and wrong people's people's view of right and wrong let's put it that way. And what you're allowed to say you're not allowed to say it's about how is this gonna reflect on my company?

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, and also the money part that you said, you know, Facebook, runs ads and keeps groups up that are super offensive and gross and terrible, because they make money. 

Kristin Wood  
Right. Like, if you look at the example of the different sports teams right now, and the fact that there's been discussions over the years about the name of the former name of the Washington Redskins, the Cleveland Indians etc, etc. And I've had, personally I'm just going to share I've had a problem with all of that. For years. It's it's to me been offensive and wrong. That's just my opinion. But all of a sudden, when do we end up changing these things? When what's going on in this country and the what's the right wording, the unrest, the protesting all of that at the height now all of a sudden, oh, this is a problem, and we need to change this. That infuriated me. Not because I didn't believe it, because I just said, I've been believing that it needed to be addressed, but because of the reasons behind it, it was like oh, we're gonna lose money.

Ralph Andracchio  
They weren't doing it because it was the right thing to do. They aren't doing it because they're gonna lose a couple bucks. So yeah. Freedom of speech. Protection from government, not from other people. So that's that, but then number two. When people get canceled, I like to look at it in in turn, like the totality of the person and their their kind of the breadth of their work. You know, like taking Joe Rogan for example. He's had a podcast for a while now. He has a ton of shows out there. He's like, the biggest money maker that Spotify has. He got called out for spreading misinformation about COVID Rightly so I think if you have a voice that the public is listening to, you have a responsibility to give them correct information, you know, or, I mean, and I was gonna say if not at least couch it as like this is my opinion. And, you know, whether you do or not, it's still if you have that platform, I think it's it behooves you like I wouldn't say anything on this show. That I I wasn't sure of that would affect people's lives, you know, and I, I take that responsibility seriously, and I'm sure you do. Right, 

Kristin Wood  
I try. I try to 

Ralph Andracchio  
I try to at every juncture but but then I try to look at the whole you know, breath and the person's work and like, is this a one off thing? Is it like something that you know, you were talking about this before the show started of like is it was a one off Were they young did they know it not know better? Can you say that again cuz you said it really well?

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, it and I said to Ralph, before we, when we were talking, I was like, it's very confusing. And I think I'm a little bit torn at times because I just whether I think it's right or wrong is one thing. But I do think that what I hate to say this, but what it is that took place what was said or done and or the person's age at which this took place like when some things that like when somebody is in the spotlight for whatever reason, and someone goes back 25 years when they were 16 and pulls something out and it's nothing about what they've how they've represented themselves for the next for the past 20 something years. I have a hard time... at that point. I'm like, they were a kid and and they've grown and they're not that person. Just like I like to think I've grown and I'm very different in many, many ways. And so that's different to me. This was saying to Ralph, and I tread very lightly with what I'm about to say, with I don't know 45 And something is very blatantly discriminatory or offensive, and you're developed. You were a grown person at that point. And it is very clear, like there's no misinterpretation of what's been said or done. Then I feel differently about it as far as the way it should be treated. And I don't know if I'm right with that. That's why I'm sort of talking a little slow and like in the singsong voice because like I don't I'm still processing this we just started talking about it before we came on. If I'm if I'm on point with that or not I'm still grappling a little bit,

Kristin Wood  
No I think so I think that's definitely a factor. If, if somebody somebody's cake isn't fully baked, if they're 18 years old, and you know, they're saying things and they just don't know any better. They honestly just don't know, because they haven't been exposed like I think this connects to our last episode about banning books, you know, if they just don't know any better and haven't been exposed to different points of view. And they say something and somebody's like, Woah, you got to think twice about that buddy. And then they're like, oh, wow, you're right, sorry. And then they open up a dialog and they learn and it's like a learning experience. Great. Like, I think that's the way it should happen.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, and I mean, I'm not going to share the specifics of something with me, but I will generally say that I had something I had several situations, but I had something very specific where I made a comment very, very young. And I had no idea that what I was saying was offensive. And someone who became one of my dearest closest friends who I'm watching her pup right now and still very good friends with could have run screaming from me and could have said this girl wow and never spoken to me again. And she was I'm very grateful. Didn't do that and actually spoke to me about what I just said and why that was offensive and super wrong. And I still feel silly about it this many years later, but I am so grateful because that I learned and that will ever flew out of my mouth ever again since and I learned a lot and I but you know if I'm doing that at my age now there's might be a little bit different lens so people might have towards me.

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as a performer I'm sure I can think of at least one time in my mind where I said something that I didn't realize was offensive. And then somebody talked to me after the show about and I was like, Oh, thank you. I will never ever say that again. And it's you. You know, sometimes you just don't know it's not like, it's not like the big ones. Like there's the big words that we all know the big phrases that are like, please don't you know, never ever ever say that. But then there's the other things that you might have heard one off somebody else say or like read or somewhere and you didn't in context. It's like, you know, those are the kinds of things I think we're talking about now. If like he just didn't know, you didn't have the worldly experience to you know, but it's good that there were people around us that said, hey, you know, that is not good. And...

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, and I think we're always growing this way. You know, I feel like in the past, maybe few years, I'll say, maybe even more so recently, you know, I've learned a lot more about the privilege that I have as a not disabled person. I'm forgetting the word abled. I don't know what the word is. But and all the privilege and all the things that I have because I don't have a disability. Like that's something I've learned a lot more about in recent years. And it's not like I, to my knowledge, I was going around saying terrible things before that, although I'm sure I said some things that would be very offensive to somebody with a disability. But it's, I'm learning more and more and becoming more and more aware. And that's again, going back to other podcast episodes, that's having more contact with people who have a disability and can you can talk to and learn from which is exactly how I've become a little bit more educated. I've got a long way to go.

Ralph Andracchio  
And this ties into something I posted today about cultivating your students self and being you know, trying to move into a growth mindset of approaching every experience and opportunity and new person as I want to learn from this. I'm curious about this. I'm gonna I'm not going to be the expert. I think a lot of times when we get called out on something, our ego steps in to protect us and we get angry and defensive because we know we don't we don't like being called out for stuff. And it's hard to set that aside and say, you know, you know what, you're right. I want to hear you out what's you know, I want to learn from this and yeah, it's it's a mindset that it takes work to cultivate takes practice, but I mean, I think in the in the end it's it's important to have that, that frame of mind when you go into situations like this,

Kristin Wood  
I think the other side to this that we can or cannot go to here and I'll go here for a minute, is people people who have are I can't think of the right wording Ralph. This has been all day 

Ralph Andracchio  
All day with this 

Kristin Wood  
People who feel as though they keep getting put in a position to educate other people for their own ignorance. I can't think of the right wording. That can also become exhausting. You know, there's this I want to learn and I want to better understand and I don't I want to better understand privilege and race and religion and all this stuff. And and then the wish or some in some cases, the pressure that's put on that that person or persons that represents that group, to then educate those people that don't know or understand or I think that there's a fatigue around that. There's a frustration around that. And there's a a resistance after a while like I'm done. You know, I'm from x group. I'm Jewish. I'm African American. I'm I'm LGBTQ that I'm done. I've done my time, and I am not going to be responsible. For teaching anymore. Non LG BT Q.

Kristin Wood  
We got to shorten that. I'll talk to the rest of the group and see what...

Kristin Wood  
Or non Jewish people about how what they're saying doing we're thinking like, it's not my job like I'm tired,

Ralph Andracchio  
Point well taken. Absolutely. I agree. 1,000% Because it's not, yeah, not my job to educate people on you know, LGBTQ issues and why you shouldn't say certain things or think certain things. I think if the opportunity is there and somebody is nice enough to to call you out and say hey, that's you know, re think what you're saying, because XYZ I think that's nice of them. But I think, I think, to clarify, I think what I'm saying is if somebody calls you out I don't think it's on them to say and here's why. I think just somebody saying hey, you shouldn't say it's bad. And then me doing my own research and saying, Oh, crap, I wonder what happened and then like, doing my own reading to figure it out, I think is the best,

Kristin Wood  
Right. Like it's not person of XYZ groups responsibility to now mentor you and give any education like that I'm exhausted and I'm on any of these categories. I'm this WASP human ever here. But I that's something that was brought to my attention that I found very interesting and made a lot of sense. It's like, okay, sure, there's some people that might want to do that. And that's fine, but it shouldn't fall on people in that group to then have to continually teach others what's okay, what's not okay. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah, and I, I think there may be a tendril of that in canceling somebody, you know, like, hey, you've done this really egregious thing. It's not up to us to educate you. It's to punish you go do do your get, educate yourself and then come back when you're ready, you know, but then I then that I agree with all of that. But then I think that begs the question, what happens after that is that person just floating in space forever? Or is there a way for them to come back and say, you know, what, you're, you know, you're right. I've, I've, I've done reading and I've educated myself, I realized now what happened? I'm going to work to be a better version of myself and not you know, not do that. Is that enough? I know, right. 

Kristin Wood  
It really is hard because certain things that have been done said that I don't think it's enough. I don't I think I know what goes wrong, but it goes back to age and how blatant we like how A) you know that what you're saying. Some people will just go off at the mouth and don't give a crap and believe everything you're saying. So that's easy cancel all the way I don't wanna hear you anymore to be quite honest. But then there's people that don't know there's so many categories, and there's people that really are that way, but pretend they're not that it slips out and then oh my gosh, so should we give them a chance? No, because it really just been masking who they really are and what they really think. And then there's not knowing there's just so many different aspects of it. And how do you really, I don't know,

Ralph Andracchio  
I think pattern behavior. Yeah. Cuz and I think people who have been canceled exhibit a pattern of behavior. It's not just a one off thing. No names are being mentioned. Because we would like to grow this this show to be something someday. It's still in its embryonic stage. But I think that's part of it, too. Pat, you know, we look at the pattern behavior. Is it like a one off thing that somebody said just because they didn't realize? Or is it they said something, but if you look back on their work, it's like, they've been saying something for a while

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, but then I'm not gonna mention the name. We're not gonna get into specifics because I'm not gonna start calling out celebrities, could be really bad. But then there's some things that have happened. That are blatant racism or blatant discrimination like there's every- like everyone knows. No one doesn't know what it means to say x word or phrase, but how do you come back from that? I that I don't know how you come back and say, Oh, I didn't know and I'm all better now because I read some books like I then i That's why I kind of go back and forth and like, yeah, there's things that just there's some real just like your basics of what you just don't

Ralph Andracchio  
Right the basics of being a human being.

Kristin Wood  
And almost every single person knows this.

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah, I think there are certain words and phrases that fall out of certain people's mouths very easily and for those of us who wouldn't dream of saying words or phrases like that, and don't it's harder to accept an apology or like a mea culpa, or I'm going to change because, well, are you going to change? Because that was that was pretty nasty thing you said. You've said it multiple times. And it's very easy for you to say and it's like, you're in a different category of thought at that point than the rest of us. 

Kristin Wood  
Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking of one particular word. And you could be out and about and you could be a song could come on. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh, sure. Yeah. 

Kristin Wood  
And maybe by accident, someone slips and sings along to a word they would never say out loud. Different to me. Then somebody that's repeatedly saying the word,

Ralph Andracchio  
Not in a song context. Right.

Kristin Wood  
I mean, I'm not saying either is great, but I it's just there's so many caveats. It's hard, I'm a little uncomfortable. I mean, 

Ralph Andracchio  
It's a minefield it is and I, but I think it's important to talk about because it goes back to personal boundaries, things that we've been talking about forever on this show. How we communicate with each other, what we hope to gain from communication with each other. And, and what's acceptable and not acceptable and giving people the agency to push back on things that are not acceptable, you know, and not just staying quiet and saying, oh, that's just just that person. That's what to do. That's what they say, you know,

Kristin Wood  
I think it's just hard to know if people are authentic, too like, this whole thing with the whole sports teams was my one little I guess example. And like, are people just especially if we're talking about in the public eye. Are they just saying stuff I wanted to curse so bad right there, but they're saying stuff to say just to save themselves? Are they? It's so hard to tell. Even outside probably the public eye it's, I don't know. It's just really hard to tell. Whether somebody is just giving lip service, I guess, or they really genuinely didn't know and feel terrible don't want to be different and are making the efforts to do so.

Ralph Andracchio  
And I going back to your point about it's not it's not the marginalized communities responsibility to educate 1,000% agree. I know from personal experience, I'm tired of it as well. It's up to other people in that person's community to educate them. So and I ran into this. I got I forget what it was about, but I mentioned something about I think it was the one there. Oh, it might have been George Floyd. When that happened, and I was I posted on Facebook something about the officer who shall remain nameless because he doesn't deserve to be mentioned. You know, it's and I say something like white. It was like directed at white men. And I said, we failed if this keeps happening because we're not holding each other accountable for what we're doing. And I got some very pointed responses from other white men. Like saying, 

Kristin Wood  
Did you get in a Facebook fight about it? 

Ralph Andracchio  
I got in a little tiny Facebook fight about it, but it wasn't it wasn't a big dust up like a lot of people have but I still was like, why is this hitting a nerve for you? Like why are you so offended by me saying we have to call each other out

Kristin Wood  
They don't want to take responsibility. That's the problem right there with privilege

Ralph Andracchio  
It's that privilege. It's the ego. It's everything we've been talking about on this show of its coming like full force. When somebody challenges you about your deeply held beliefs about something and it's not up to the marginalized community to educate you. It's up to the other people that look like you and have the same upbringing as you who are marginalizing to say, Hey, buddy, not cool. You can't do that. And there's not enough. I'm just going to talk for white dudes out there because I am one. There's not enough of us doing that.

Kristin Wood  
No, and that's like, literally gives me like, not a visceral might be a little dramatic reaction, That really, like I'm not doing that. So why are you blaming me and that is missing the freakin point. Oh my god, trust me. I met people in my life that I've had these conversations. With and I kind of want to like, scream, but it's yeah, it's this. This is not about someone saying it's all your fault. You white male, right. It's about collectively

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, there's a lot of things you can point white men and say it is your fault

Kristin Wood  
No, but I think individual like you might be a big contributor, but it's it needs to be a collective thing. And...

Ralph Andracchio  
No it's a good point that even though I am not responsible for I am not personally responsible for a lot of the ills that America you know, has visited upon marginalized people. I am still benefiting from the structures that are in place that keep marginalized people down. And so it's up to me to speak out about that stuff and try to change it everywhere I can, because even though I'm not directly responsible, I still benefit from it.

Kristin Wood  
Right. And also, when you're saying, Oh, it's not me, that wasn't a fair voice, but it's not me or why are you with defensiveness talking about then that's you're just part of the problem, not because you individually are responsible for it, but because that attitude is was perpetuating it. But I think that I don't want to generalize here but I think when you're getting that response from a white male, those individuals do not have exposure to people to a lot of people or any people maybe that are different from them, because if they did, they wouldn't talk like that. Was I don't know if I should have said that. But I just did.

Ralph Andracchio  
No I agree. And I also think it's a power thing too of...

Kristin Wood  
I don't know if it's always, not to cut you off.

Ralph Andracchio  
i i think it is just because I'm gonna get bashed for this but that's okay. I think a lot of the the white men who society in general has problems with the only thing they have going for them is that they're white men. And it's, it's hard to when you when that's your claim to fame. It's hard to detach yourself from that and say, Oh wow, there is stuff I can change. There is stuff I can speak out about. There are people I can help with my privilege and my status, because that's all you have going for you.

Kristin Wood  
I don't think they see it.

Ralph Andracchio  
No of course not.

Kristin Wood  
You think they see that? 

Ralph Andracchio  
No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. 

Kristin Wood  
Again, we're not talking about all white man. 

Ralph Andracchio  
No, not all white men. I say under my breath.

Kristin Wood  
Podcast canceled, 

Ralph Andracchio  
Fine send me emails I don't care. 

Kristin Wood  
I don't know my experience. has been more of I don't understand it. So why why am I part of the problem? I'm not doing anything to offend. X group, y group, Z group, whatever.

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of assumptions in that statement too.

Kristin Wood  
True. True. True. Good point. I mean, um, yeah. Oh, gosh, so many things come up. I got things like I got like buttons pushed right now on it. Yeah. 

Ralph Andracchio  
And that's I think it's important to talk about it because it's what we're talking about right now. And yes, last week to about the books. I think it permeates a lot of what we do with our clients even though it may not. It may not be on the surface. It's there. You know, all this stuff we're talking about about where you're at in society, how you feel about other groups and other people and about yourself and your status and the structure and all this. It affects us all no matter who you are. And I think we don't talk about it enough to to say it's okay to talk about it. It's okay to question it. It's okay to disagree about it. You know, at the end of the day, I think at the end of the day, I want to believe everybody's good. And we're all coming from a place of, you know, assuming best intentions, even if you say really horrible things. I have to I have to believe there's a glimmer of hope in there somewhere for everybody.

Kristin Wood  
I think even even with male privilege, white male privilege, I don't think that some men even I'm repeating myself, I guess have a clue. And don't think that there don't don't see the privilege.

Ralph Andracchio  
And they also have to want to change. I think that's the the final component of this is, you know, can you be canceled? Sure. Is there a way back? Possibly, but I think a lot of it has to do with the individual and them saying, I'm going to put in the work. I'm going to be introspective. Take stock of why I'm doing what I'm doing, why I'm saying what I'm saying and do better. And I think that's all anybody wants.

Kristin Wood  
I just wonder if for some people they don't know how or where to start.

Ralph Andracchio  
But then again, it's up to that person to get the get the resources they need, you know, if they have people in their lives who are nice enough to educate them. Great, and if not, there's a whole internet out there full of books and articles and, and graphics, a lot of buttons to press.

Kristin Wood  
I got buttons pressed today. I got things...

Ralph Andracchio  
How you feeling? It's my turn to check in on you. 

Kristin Wood  
I'm ok. I'm actually really glad we talked about this. 

Ralph Andracchio  
It's an interesting topic and I think I think canceling somebody is a is a weapon that we wield. And I think there there needs to be some thought behind it. I don't I don't think I've ever I don't think I've seen a version of canceling somebody that I thought was inappropriate or unjust or like too much. I feel like -

Kristin Wood  
Oh I did I'm going to tell you in a minute. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh, really okay. 

Kristin Wood  
I don't... I forget if I told you. Finish your thought.

Ralph Andracchio  
But I just I hope I can't No, none sprang to mind. I'm sure as soon as we stopped taping them, they're like, oh, there's 20 things I could have said. But I you know, I assume best intentions from everybody. And I hope that you know, if somebody gets cancelled, it's it's warranted. But it's also up to that person being canceled, to do the work on themselves and say, wow, you know, I'm going to take this opportunity to think. But if we're talking about celebrities, and there's money involved, there really is no incentive to do the work on yourself. Because you're making bank saying exactly what you're sayin.

Kristin Wood  
Is that fair though, to every celebrity that they're all just about...

Ralph Andracchio  
Sure. 

Kristin Wood  
Alright Ralph. Alright canceled this is the last episode. Thanks for coming. I'm just kidding. No, my example is random. And I think I'm gonna I did I went off to you about this.

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh, sure. I don't want to if you if you're not comfortable saying it, you don't have to say it. 

Kristin Wood  
No, it's about the Tonya Harding special. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh it was Tonya Harding. Yeah.

Kristin Wood  
So anyway, this is probably off topic. But what I watched the I, Tanya, five years after I came out, or whatever it was about Tonya Harding, and Nancy Kerrigan and the ice skating thing whatever. And I was, like, deeply, like deeply saddened by learning what I learned about her life. It was awful. Really, really awful Tonya Harding, I'm talking about. And, you know, jury's still sort of out about exactly what happened with that whole thing. And who was behind it. And if she knew, and if she didn't know, but damn, when I watched that, and I learned things that were factual as far as like, her upbringing, or the abuse, or her lack of education, and then their watch. And then I watched the scene where they cancel her. But the judge says to her, she didn't I don't think she went to jail. There was like, you can never skate again. i It gives me a chill. Now, it was so sad to me, because I watched the whole thing. And I was really invested clearly. But it was like, Oh, my God, like, really? Does that have to be for the rest of her life?

Kristin Wood  
She had nothing else. And, and that to me when I looked at her whole life, and everything I happen was like, that's a little much. I think she could be helped and go back on the like. I don't know how I brought this, this, this this, this particular movie really bothered me clearly, because like, I'm still talking about it's two weeks later,

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, sure, I must have been a good movie. I, Tonya

Kristin Wood  
I thought it was good. It was just so sad. And I have no idea how bad it was.

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, that also speaks to the point of like, redemption. And if people are worthy of it, I don't know if worthy is the right word. But there's always an avenue back. But it's up to the person. Oh, that's what popped into my head while we're talking about it. Watching. I've seen documentaries about white supremacists who like leave, leave that culture, like become educators and advocates for you know, equity. And that's like a prime example of somebody who, you know, was in the life doing terrible things, but then realized, oh, wow, 

Kristin Wood  
That's true. That's a great example. 

Ralph Andracchio  
You know, I can change there is a choice. And I think everybody has a choice, no matter who you are, what you do, how much money's involved. You know, there's always a choice to say, No, I'm not going to do this anymore, I think, and no judgment. I mean, if you made the choice that you're going to keep saying what you're saying and do what you're doing, even though people are saying it's wrong, and you got canceled. That's your choice. Ya know, That's what you're doing. But I think it all comes down to choice always we always have a choice in how we what path to take moving forward. So

Ralph Andracchio  
Wow that was so eloquently just summed up. I felt like you just... and breathe.

Ralph Andracchio  
Everybody eats some Grape Nuts now that's great. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I think that's it. 

Kristin Wood  
I think that's it. I think we covered it. As we say every single time. If you have a thought, response, positive or negative, we want to hear it at heyletmeaskyousomething@gmail.com. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Yep. All of our contact information is always in the show notes. Yeah,

Kristin Wood  
Till next time?

Ralph Andracchio  
Till next week. We have a special guests next week is going to be fun. And then a lot more guests after that. We're halfway through our season. It's crazy. It goes so quickly.

Kristin Wood  
When is it over?

Ralph Andracchio  
It's never over.

Kristin Wood  
I know. But I'm vacationing in March at some point. I didn't know if I'm vacationing from the show, but I'm vacationing myself.

Ralph Andracchio  
Way to spring it on me. Well, we're gonna you're gonna be Zoomin in

Kristin Wood  
I will pull myself off the beach to Zoom on in.

Ralph Andracchio  
From Porta Vaiiarta or wherever you're going. I don't even know if that's still a thing.

Kristin Wood  
I know. I've heard of it.

Ralph Andracchio  
Alright, folks, thanks for listening. 

Kristin Wood  
Thank you.

Ralph Andracchio  
And we'll see you next time.

Kristin Wood  
Bye.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai