Why Are Hard Conversations... So Hard? - S04E05

On this week’s show Kristin and I are digging into conversations, why the hard ones can be so hard, tuning into what kind of conversationalists we are, and giving ourselves permission to be wrong sometimes.

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DISCALIMER:
The views expressed on the Hey Let Me Ask You Something Podcast are solely the opinions of your hosts Kristin Wood and Ralph Andracchio and are based on their years of practical and clinical experience. These opinions do not constitute any kind of advice, diagnosis, or treatment of any mental, physical, or emotional issues. If you are having an emergency or any serious ongoing situations please contact your local hospital or a trusted professional.

Transcript

The Hey Let Me Ask You Something Podcast
Season 04
Episode 05
Why Are Hard Conversations... So Hard?

[MUSIC INTRO PLAYS]

Ralph Andracchio  
Time to get curious. It's the Hey Let Me Ask You Something podcast. The show dedicated to inspiring more people to ask more questions and have more interesting conversations. On this week's show, Kristin and I are digging into conversations, why the hard ones can be so hard, tuning into what kind of conversationalist we are, and giving ourselves permission to be wrong sometimes...

Kristin Wood  
You have to be aware of your emotions. You have to be self aware of how you're feeling. You have to have practiced that I think to be able to come to a place where you know that you need to take a step away for a minute.

Ralph Andracchio  
One person has to arrive as the adult for lack of a better word, you know, and it's hard to do that it's hard to fill that role but I think, you know, barring everything else, if at least one person can arrive to the conversation level headed, I think if somebody's there to be that level voice of reason... it helps.

Kristin Wood  
When I say this whole thing about taking a step away and a moment to regroup and calm down. That does not give all the people that like to avoid difficult conversations, a pass to run away.

Ralph Andracchio  
The best way for you to help us inspire more conversations and easily find more of our great episodes is to hit that subscribe button and share this show with your friends. And check us out on YouTube if you want to see us as well as hear us. And remember, we love that you're listening but this show is for entertainment and we are not your therapist or your coach. We are not providing professional advice either from us or any of our guests. Give the full disclaimer in the show notes a once over for more info on that. Alright my friends let's start this conversation 

Ralph Andracchio  
I'm doing the trick. You know, when you watch more about it's more network television and not so much Netflix or stuff but anytime an actor is pregnant, like in real life and they're not supposed to be on the show, they do the pillow thing. They have an oversized bag that they carry around everywhere or like they have their their charts in front of them or like stand behind a fern or something

Kristin Wood  
Today our pillows are on our laps. Me so I don't flash everyone on YouTube 

Ralph Andracchio  
Me just because I have a little FUPA.

Kristin Wood  
And Ralph wants to feel more comfortable in himself and his FUPA. Can we say that? Is that cursing?

Ralph Andracchio  
You can look it up. You don't have to. We're not going to say it.

Kristin Wood  
Inappropriate for this professional podcast.

Ralph Andracchio  
This is a family - a family podcast. Even though... 

Kristin Wood  
I love your laugh, 

Ralph Andracchio  
My Sylvester laugh.

Kristin Wood  
I'm doing my hair Ralph. We're doing all kinds of things.

Ralph Andracchio  
You should have done that before we started. So as I was saying before, we started the on the ongoing saga of my fight with the South Philly squirrels. They've taken the fight to a new level and killed one of my ivys. They like bit it off at the root. So now I have to go buy another one. That's obnoxious. And I've started - anybody who's thinking oh, just get the chicken wire. I have I'm starting to put chicken wire on but I didn't get to that one. And they're I think they know I think they know that I'm on to them. 

Kristin Wood  
That's why they went in for the root. 

Ralph Andracchio  
They're retaliating. They're retaliating. So if anybody who's listening is a squirrel psychologist. Shoot us an email. Let me know if I can wage psychological warfare on these squirrels because they really are they're city squirrels. They know what they're doing. They're very smart. They retaliate, like we've found. We found poop on our cushions and like half eaten nuts like in very strategic places. It's like, it's like finding a horse head in your bed. It's like The Godfather thing, but with squirrels. It's just half eaten nuts.

Kristin Wood  
I told you, put a No squirrel crossing sign.

Ralph Andracchio  
That's that's a good idea. I have not thought about that. Maybe they just don't know the terms of engagement. So I will put up a sign. 

Kristin Wood  
That would be really funny. That would be funny if all the squirrels stop coming. Like oh my God squirrels can read.

Ralph Andracchio  
They also don't they don't they're not scared of you. Like Dan will go out on the back deck to smoke or I'll go out there to check on the plants or water them or whatever. Just sit and relax. And there'll be out there and they'll just watch us and they won't they won't run away. They don't. They they just stand there and look at you. It's a little bit terrifying.

Kristin Wood  
Like a happy thing.

Ralph Andracchio  
Nasty little squirrel face. And I know people think squirrels are very cute and yes, they're very cute but also they're not eating your plants. So miss me with that noise.

Kristin Wood  
It's like the bunnies down in the pool. They come right they don't destroy things but they but they come right up. They're not afraid. There's a little baby one like this big that was like two feet away from me last week and I sat there and stared at him until he like, saw me and then he hopped off to his mom.

Ralph Andracchio  
I hope we can everybody can hear us over the air conditioning is fine. 

Kristin Wood  
Oh, I forgot. 

Ralph Andracchio  
That's alright. We'll try it. You know 

Kristin Wood  
Can you hear us now? 

Ralph Andracchio  
Can you hear us now? We'll just we'll just talk a little louder. It's okay, it's hot here.

Kristin Wood  
It's either that or I'm gonna melt and there'll be a lot of sweating and I already showered twice.

Ralph Andracchio  
While we were on I was just up in the Finger Lakes last week in New York which is beautiful, please go visit it if you can. We were sitting behind we were doing. We went to a vineyard and a distillery in a brewery like there was - I didn't realize a ton of vineyards up around the Finger Lakes. 

Kristin Wood  
I knew that. I don't think I went to any when I was there. 

Ralph Andracchio  
So we we went we were doing a little mini tour and we were at a brewery and we were sitting like in Adirondack chairs in their backyard. We're talking out of nowhere, this little wild bunny. We were like far away from the road. comes out of the bushes on the road. Like runs full tilt up to me stops looks me in the eyes is like breathless and it's like looking at me and then runs away into the bushes and I'm like, did he just telepathically like scream for help?

Kristin Wood  
I think it was somebody from the other side.

Ralph Andracchio  
Somebody was telling me something.

Kristin Wood  
It's like that my bird story real fast. A few years ago is at the pool in New Jersey with my brother and his family. And I'm sitting in the chair and no joke. This little bird, little sparrow just your regular little bird like flies up and hops right on the arm of the chair. Like I'm right there. It's on the arm of the chair which I thought was very strange. Right? That's already weird. Then the bird proceeds to hop on my lap. No joke. Yeah, I'm like there's a wild bird on my lap. I wasn't scared. I was mesmerized. That was awesome. Then the bird let me pet it. No way. Oh, it was probably about 30 seconds. And after I pet it for a little while it just flew away. And in my brain because this is me. I'm like somebody just came to me like there's no way that was just random that the bird would hop on my lap and let me pet it.

Ralph Andracchio  
I believe that too. I believe people come back and visit you but who did I know that would just come up and breathlessly stare at me for 30 seconds. Use your words.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah. I am representing.

Ralph Andracchio  
Did somebody need help? It was like Lassie but with a bunny.

Kristin Wood  
Like a charade of some sort. Where I can take some guesses.

Ralph Andracchio  
I don't have time for this bunny. Just tell me what you need on a very busy Yeah, even when I'm on vacation. Speaking of miscommunication... 

Kristin Wood  
Never let's me down. Never! 

Ralph Andracchio  
I'm good at this I should see to class on on segues into another topic. Today, our question for Hey Let Me Ask You Something is about talking to people about conversations but specifically, Why do conversations end up being why do hard conversations ended up being so difficult 

Kristin Wood  
Right. It's scary 

Ralph Andracchio  
...and scary. Why? Why does everything turn into an argument especially if it's a tough it's a tough topic, especially right now. The way the world is like I don't I think it's harder for everybody to have a conversation like a level headed conversation and not devolve into hysterics and emotion. I mean, we're human beings. It's natural world going through some some S word. So I get it, but it doesn't have to be that way. So that's I think that's the question for today is why? Why do hard conversations always end up as arguments?

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, it made me think of last week a little bit when we were when we were talking about a piece on why are people so angry? And that can make you just watch it like I saw it today. Like you see it every day downtown. Someone's just yelling at someone crossing the street or laying on there hore. Now that's a little bit different for whatever reason my brain went there. But just like why people can't manage their emotions and communicate them effectively when because that person is that upset about that is going home to somebody that's going to interact with somebody so it is kind of relevant in a way.

Ralph Andracchio  
Right. The the traffic thing that we could have a whole hour long discussion about traffic. Yeah, that's just ridiculous to begin with. But yeah, you You never you don't really know what somebody's going through. Especially like, if I'm sitting behind somebody in traffic and they're not moving or the light turn green and I'm not paying attention like yes, it's annoying, but I'm not going to lay on my horn immediately. I'll give them a chance to be like oh, they're what maybe they were checking text or maybe listen to radio or whatever. But you know, it's very easy to take a breath and be like, I'm gonna see what they do, it's okay. Right. And I don't think a lot of us can do that.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, or we don't because that's part that's a big part of effectively communicating especially around difficult topics, which is taking a beat taking a breath. Maybe we need to calm down before we communicate about this thing. Because maybe we're in our emotions are high and we're not going to communicate the best way. And I think that's often what trips us up is people feeling so strongly in that moment and are so their emotions are so high, and then we don't communicate effectively.

Ralph Andracchio  
Right. So why not just wait until your emotions subside?

Kristin Wood  
I think it takes a lot of self awareness. You have to be paying attention to it and I don't know that everybody's doing that. You have to be aware of your emotions. You have to be self aware of how you're feeling. You have to practice that I think to be able to come to a place where you know that you need to step away for a minute. I think the hard part sometimes is sometimes people can pick up not quickly but people can get with Okay, you're right. That makes a lot of sense. I should step away if I'm really upset before I say something I regret or turns into an argument but the problem is not the problem. The tough part is when you step away, reconvening and addressing the issue, because that's in the textbook when you don't you don't get anywhere so let's say you get into a quick, snippy snappy, angry exchange and you realize, oh, I should walk away. And you do well, it's important to come back. It's important to kind of figure out how you're feeling and then come back and have a conversation when both of you are calm.

Ralph Andracchio  
And I can already hear in my head. Somebody if I'm like, You know what, I need to walk away for a second and regroup and take a breath. I can immediately hear somebody say, don't you walk away from me. How disrespectful we're not done with this... I'm not done talking to you yet. So there. I don't think there is room a lot of times to take that breath because people see it as an insult.

Kristin Wood  
Right. So I think you need to communicate it. This is the next step which is somebody saying something this is gonna sound real rosy and pretty, but somebody's saying something like I can see we're both heated right now. Let's take a couple minutes and talk in an hour. Right? Right that that's sort of setting the stage that's letting the listener know I'm not abandoning you or this conversation. I don't. I'm not saying this is an important I'm not saying I don't want to hear you. But we both need to calm down. But again, what I'm saying right now is very difficult to do in the moment. And even then, some people get very upset because some people are very anxious around conflict, and they need it to be addressed and they think they getting addressed right then right there is going to ease their anxiety. So sometimes you might have one person who's good at this, let's say and they and needs it. Some people are programmed that when there's confrontation, they want to run away right there. They like ah, and they go the other way. And if you have somebody on the other end of that, that's the opposite. They can get more and more triggered right? When that person steps away. So it's about being clear what you're doing. If it's a situation that's not a family where you can sit down beforehand. If it's an office, or if it's with a friend, you might just say hey, I know I'm getting upset or whatever. Let's, let's take some time apart and we'll come back and talk in an hour or whatever. When you're at home and when I've done work with couples or just individuals around other people, relationships with others, I always tell them to have a conversation about this before it happens. Like a sit down with X person and say hey, I noticed we're getting into conflict. I wanted to try this. So next time I see it happening. I'm going to do this Oh, so you're like laying on the ground laying the groundwork. The framework that's part of the biggest problem in communication is that people don't ask for what they need. Number one and number two, don't sort of explain where they're coming from, why they're doing what they're doing.

Ralph Andracchio  
And I have Yes, I agree with everything you're saying and I I know I've touched on this before in different episodes we've had but you know a lot of what I do is I mean in a really general sense teach people how to have better conversations, you know, and part of that is both sides of the conversation arriving with best intentions you know, arriving with I want to have a conversation about something I want to get something out of this. I want to I want to have a level headed discussion and not like devolve into stuff. I want to agree on a base reality that we both share. And I feel like right now a lot of times it doesn't happen. I feel like one or both people are coming to the conversation with a weird idea about what's happening or not all the information or wrong information that they think is right or you know, some one person has to arrive as the adult for lack of, you know, and I feel like it's hard to do that. It's hard to fill that role, but I think if at least, you know barring everything else, if at least one person can arrive to the conversation, well levelheaded being able to say you know what? I don't I think this is getting into some weird territory or I feel like we're getting a little too heated. You know, it's let's take let's take five minutes. Let's get a drink of water. Take a walk, you know I think if somebody's there to be that level voice of reason. It helps. I wish both people were that because that's that's like the gold standard but at least one person has to be that person that says, you know, I have opened themselves up this is another part of it open themselves up to say you know what, I hear what you're saying. I can see your point of view. I understand the point you're making, you're making a valid observation. You know, those kinds of things are hard to say because sometimes we feel like I'm giving up power or I'm giving up my my my position in the in the conversation. If I agree with somebody, you're like, oh, you know what, I may be wrong about that. That's a lot of people can't do that. And that's where things I think, go off the rails a lot of times where if you're holding on to your point of view so hard, that you can't hear anything else. That's not a conversation anymore.

Kristin Wood  
Right. That's, you want to be right, you want to win. And if you're having a conversation because you want to prove that you're right, you're not listening, probably because you're gunning up for your person to stop talking so you can then do your whole stance right? You're not listening and most of the time, sometimes just conversate to hold a conversation that have to be about something that can be one way or another way or right or wrong, right. But I think sometimes a lot of times when you really like chip it away, it's not even about right or wrong. It's really maybe it's about two different perspectives, different feelings about it. But we get caught up in the what I call the noise. This is what I say to my clients like that, all that all that. But she always does this and I've talked to them about this and they're doing this and there's like the surface thing that you're arguing about or having a problem about is nine 90% of the time if not more, not even about that. So you're getting caught up on what I call the noise and the noise sometimes distracts us from getting to the real thing. The only thing I want to say because I have lots of things that could go on here is when I say this whole thing and when we both do really but about taking a step away and a moment to regroup and calm down. That does not give all the people that like to avoid difficult conversations, a pass to run away. That's not what that is. And I want to make sure I'm clear on that. That might be comfortable for you because you're like AP confrontation difficult conversation. But the the part that I emphasizes and the that's not always the harder part for some that want to avoid anyway. The hard part can be about going back to your corner, I'll call it I need to do it that way but and calming down and figuring out what you're feeling and what you're thinking and then going back at the right time, and one person might be better leading that, like you said, but both parties need to be calm. I think in order to later have a more effective conversation.

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah. And going. You said a couple of really great things. Number one, listening when you're in a conversation is not just waiting for your turn to talk. They will put this on my gravestone because I say this all the time. Active listening really good. Deep listening, when you're in a conversation is listening to what the person is saying. And noticing when your brain your ears prick up or your brain says oh, that was interesting. That means that's something for you to respond to have a question about you know, follow up on that that's active listening is not and not only listening to the words that stuff the person using but how do they look like they feel what is their face saying? What is their body doing? You know, there's all this stuff we can quote unquote listen to as somebody speaking and if you're the if you find yourself when you're in conversation just waiting for your turn to talk. You're not really having a conversation. You're just waiting for your turn to talk. That's that's one thing and then the other thing you said is it's you know, it's never about that thing. I again, all my classes comes up a comes up a lot because it's a human nature to do this. It's not about the drapes. That's what I told us that. That's what I told my students it's not about the drapes, because they're in there in a scene. They're doing a scene going great. And then all of a sudden they're talking about this weird thing that's outside of the relationship and I stopped them and I say What are you doing? What do you mean what am I doing? What's What are you talking about the drapes for all the time? Well, you know what's funny are notice it and it's not about the drapes, what is this really about? And then when when I reset them and recalibrate them to not start talking about stuff that's extraneous to the relationship. Then they have a really good scene afterwards and they're like Oh, my God, you're right. I was because on some weird, like, human level, having those caught like having those conversations with somebody. It opens up access to ourselves that we some we tend to close off. Again, having a really good conversation with somebody opening yourself up to making a connection. And it's easier just to talk about other things because it's deflecting.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say something... every week.

Ralph Andracchio  
Losing our Train of Thoughts with Kristin Wood.

Kristin Wood  
Old moments with Kristin you could call it. Yeah, I think if you're talking about relationships and more emotional difficult conversations, because there's work and you know, those types and then there's for personal, intimate relationships. I think sometimes too. What happens is, if the one person says something that triggers the other one, like if they say I don't know it could be anything. They say something like well, she said always nagging me about this, this and this and then you know, and then that sets something off for that other person. I've watched this happen and couples work, and you see the face and then you see the other person just sort of shuts down. Because now they've gone off on to something else because what that person said triggered a whole bunch of other stuff, right? And they can't hear them now. Because now you know, it's usually historically lots of history behind why that statement, shut them down, even when someone's being honest and just sharing their feelings. If that sets the other person off into a defensive space, then they no longer can hear them so they may be quiet, but they're shut down. They're shut off. I'll see them looking over here. They're not listening. 

Ralph Andracchio  
Yep. That's the other thing. That's the other great point you made and I forgot about. I tend to avoid in scene work. And I tell my students to do this too. I tend to avoid using the words like always, you always do this. There's always like this, excuse me. It's always like I forget there's a term for that word. I can't think of it right now. Yeah, now, right. It'll it'll come to me. I'll be asleep at four in the morning and I'll bolt up right. Dan'll be like What are you talking about? But I try to avoid words like that because it is an it's more of attacky than it is conversationy because you know you always do this when we're trying to talk about you always say this thing. You're right. I immediately shut down because you're attacking me instead of saying, you know, I've This is how I feel like sometimes I feel like I'm not being heard because this will happen during a conversation that makes more sense.

Kristin Wood  
Absolutely. It's an "I" statement, which is what I was gonna bring up. Yeah, here's your therapeutic jargon. Yes, it's it's telling the person how you feel now that can be connected to I feel ignored or with example, you're using attacked, I feel attacked. When you criticize my cooking. I don't know just making something up. You're still connecting it to that person. So there is still you're saying I don't like this that you do. But when you say you always are you are such a or whatever you are calling the person that right. Instead of focusing more on the behavior as the problem with the person is likely someone you care about or you wouldn't be in the situation in the first place of having trying to have the conversation the person you care about. It's the behavior that you don't like and so when you avoid saying that you you you as much as possible, and focusing more on the I feel and this is how it makes me feel or the way you did it. When you talk about my cooking Yeah, I often feel very attacked, right? So versus you are always criticizing me for my cooking, right? So it's, it's sounds silly and small, but it's harder for someone to react aggressively this way. The first way that I feel when you and that's often people can't argue with feelings as easily as they can with criticisms and criticizing and attacking is going to set somebody up into a defensive reactionary mode, right?

Ralph Andracchio  
Well, that's also the thing if if you say to me, you always do this, I can easily say No, I don't. Right? I can I can shut that down. But if you say I feel like I'm, I'm being attacked, when you say this, I can't say no you don't because then then that's that's that's a whole different can of worms. Can't argue with a feeling, especially if it's your own feeling.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, you can argue with your own feeling or anyone else's feeling.

Ralph Andracchio  
And also another thing that that I do with scene work is something you said you're you know, you have to like each other for some reason. For this to be happening. And it's we have this conversation. Same thing with people who are in scenes like a lot of times, it's just like a huge argument from the beginning. And I'm like, oh, hold up, folks. You like each other. You're here for a reason. You're having this conversation for a reason. If you didn't like each other and you didn't want to be in the same room. Guess what? You wouldn't be in the same room. We wouldn't be watching you have this scene. So obviously you care about each other and say in some way or like each other. Start with that as a baseline for this, you know, like like each other. You can disagree about the situation you're in you can disagree about how somebody has handled something or how you feel about the way they're doing something but like each other in some way. It's like it's it facilitates a better longer conversation rather than just screaming each other because you always do this, you know?

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I really think what people get caught up in when they don't feel heard, and when they want to be right. People want to get across how they feel and you can get across how you feel but you can also listen to how the other person feels. And if you can, sometimes if you can understand why someone's doing what they're doing. Sometimes with a lot of work, sometimes leaving a therapist, you can get to a point where you can empathize a little bit. For instance, we're talking about couples work, so we will have to go off on what I do. And you have a partner that is not talking about their feelings, and the other person is very frustrated with this and feels very disconnected, feels like the person doesn't care feels like whatever, etcetera, etcetera. Then, so that person's got a lot of the other person that's that's that's complaining about this is got a lot of feelings around it right? It's really affecting negatively affecting the relationship. The person who's not expressing themselves, probably knows this might even feel bad about it, but sometimes if you can listen and understand why, and usually this is deep seated stuff that comes from like, way back, very uncomfortable with emotion wasn't modeled how to to communicate, feels very uncomfortable talking about emotion. If you're able to get to a place where you can hear all that and this is a lot of what I'm talking about is therapy. But take this and adapt it however you want. And you can really understand where that person is persons coming from. Then you may feel a little bit of empathy over time as to why it's not happening and you may take it less personally because sometimes people just aren't able or people are afraid for whatever reason to talk about x. And then the other person creates a whole other narrative about how they don't care about them or whatever the case may be. And then if you're really able to sit down and talk about it and understand it. You can say, Oh, so it's not just because they don't care. It's not just because I'm not important. It's because they struggle to do this. This is something that is comfortable as I am and I'm giving the example of talking about emotion. It is like the polar opposite for the other one.

Ralph Andracchio  
And that's a great intro into knowing your conversation style. How do you arrive to a conversation and how does the other person you're talking to arrive to a conversation? When I was seeing my latest therapist before I, before he discharged me, unfortunately, it was before I graduated, and he discharged me, he said, there's nothing wrong with you get out. If they came up about how I communicate with Dan, and he said, Well, how does Dan communicate? And I said what do you mean? Because I never thought about thought about before. I just like, how does Dan communicate? How does he How does he like to tell his stories get his point across, you know, is he a big storyteller? Does he use very few words? Is he very standoffish, does he you know, and I never thought about it. Like that before. And I was like, Oh my God, that's a great point. If you can notice how the person you're talking to like, you're talking about relationship stuff. So I think just, you know, just use that as an example. How does your partner arrive to the conversation? Are they most comfortable? Using very few words? Are they most comfortable telling a huge story about how they feel with every detail? Like you know, do they like talking at certain times? Do they like talking over dinner, do they like you know, it little things like that if you can realize oh, that's how they that's how they're most comfortable? It's like, it can give you a little insight into how their brain works, but also, how can I more effectively communicate with them? Knowing how they're knowing how they arrive to the conversation,

Kristin Wood  
People often think everyone should be like them. If you think about love languages, and for those of you out there listening that do not know what I'm talking about, you can Google it or and I advise everyone to to Google and or read Gary Chapman's The Five Love Languages if especially if you're in a relationship, but it's basically the way that you feel loved, you know, whether it be words or or someone doing something for you, etc. I think it's the same thing when it comes to what you're talking about. You know, for someone like myself, I'm a big feelings ball and I can I have no problem talking about emotions and feelings. I have found myself in more situations that I like, with people that cannot do that. And I feel very frustrated. And I'm like, you know, in my head, I'm like, it's so easy. Just say how you feel. Just say how you feel. And, you know, going into it like that expecting somebody to be like you even though you know, they're not in your brain, you know, but then you get caught in these dynamics with them, where they will tell me how they feel. They don't care about me. They whatever. And we start creating all these narratives and then, you know, maybe they say a little bit well that's not very much or that what else? We don't see that somebody has trouble connecting with the motion saying it's hard for me to talk about this. Is them pushing past pushing? past what they're comfortable with? is them being vulnerable, but somebody on the receiving end that that's much more comfortable. Well, that doesn't tell me anything, and that's not helpful and you don't care and you know what I mean? It's hard sometimes for us to take a step back, and like you just said, recognizing who the person is, in general, in addition to their communication style, your company in my example, I'm comfortable as hell sitting there having a chat about feelings, as comfortable as I am. Somebody like who I just described, is that uncomfortable. Not talking about feelings and keeping it moving. They're comfortable. Not talking about feelings, keep it moving. I'm uncomfortable. So if that's even a work in a friendship, or romantic relationship, or whatever it is, you've got to be able to take a step back. And even though logically, you might know this, we still do it all the time and remember, and try to be patient with understanding how that other person operates. And how do you come to a common ground where you can hopefully, make this work for one another?

Ralph Andracchio  
And it's nice when you can say, hey, I'm noticing this is difficult for you or I'm you know, I I've noticed that you're starting to clam up. You know, what's what's going on, you know, just that little bit of that's active listening right there that saying, Oh, wow, I'm not just waiting for my turn to talk. I've noticed that something happened where this person is starting to shut down. Hey, gee, do we need to take a break? I noticed I noticed that you're getting uncomfortable. You're shutting out a little bit. I don't want this to be uncomfortable. Like do we, you know, that's another avenue of communication to use with somebody to like, Hey, I'm noticing this about you. I care about you. I want you know, and in a business, you know, it's not just about relationships either. Which is totally great to talk about, but like in a business sense to or just, you know, friend, whatever. All this is applicable as well noticing at work like oh, you know, my co worker communicates like this or they prefer email or they prefer using you know, they prefer meetings instead of phone call feeding face to face instead of phone calls or their fine resume or their you know, prefer a short email just to let them know what's going on. Noticing that about other people and then being able to communicate with them like that. goes a long way to team cohesion and better outcomes at work and better communication skills for it's like, and it's all comes down to being able to take a step back, take a breath and listen. And listening is not just with your ears. It's with your eyes and face and your heart. You know, your nose sometimes. I felt like all seven senses, whatever they are, but also I know right now. Also, you mentioned about wanting to be right and I think that's like the downfall of a lot of this is people just want to be right. But now as the words are leaving my mouth, I also want to look behind it and say maybe a lot of it is people just want to be heard.

Kristin Wood  
I think it is. I think it is

Ralph Andracchio  
I think a lot of this we're talking about. We have difficult conversations that don't need to be difficult. It is just people like if it does go off the rails. I think a lot of times it might just be that that person wasn't feeling heard.

Kristin Wood  
I think you're right. I think that that's a huge part. Of it is wanting to get their point across and then sometimes when they want to be heard and possibly validated for how they feel that's that can sometimes shut down the listening part. But I was thinking about what you said about the work piece because that came out this was probably I think I stopped working there in 2012 or so how many years ago that was to I worked for a doctor and everyone can tell already and I talk a lot and a lot of words and there's a lot there's a lot coming out of my mouth and one time and I would go to the doctor who I love this man to pieces, and he's just he's kind of more quiet or reserved. And I don't know if it's a Docker thing or what but I would just start talking I'd be like I'm blabbity blabbity blabbity blah, blah blah, and I could just I could see his face but I also need outside help to realize that my communication style did not work for him. Maybe it's a document thing, like I said to but he just wanted to know the bullets. What are the points all this other fluff and how you feel about it? Not that he didn't care. He was a jerk just like he got lost in that and just wanted to get the bullets and it was the same with my emails to him. I had to learn his very big teaching moment for me. And I had to learn how to communicate with him and it was a lesson also, I guess especially being social workers and I think a lot of us talk a lot not all but and being very feelings ish and that that wasn't a weekend that he didn't care but he wanted to get through all that and get to the I hadn't really been taught that but sometimes with different people in different professions and different personalities. You have to learn and figure out what's the most effective way to talk to them. And it was I don't know I just thought about it. I actually never realized what a teaching moment what that was for me but it kind of really was that was just like going along babbling along before that. And then I was like oh with the doctor I need to think it through I have to go in with the two dimensions extremely busy man as many doctors are and didn't have time to listen to all my emotional stuff all the time. felt about what did a patient or whatever, you know. Yeah.

Ralph Andracchio  
Yeah. And I find that I'm the type of person when I go out and hang out with people, more often than not people feel very comfortable around me to like, open up about things and like have coverage. I could feel it's right. It's the right. But a lot of times people say, You know what? I have never told anybody this before, but I'm like, Oh God, all right. And I just am that person and that's fine, but a lot of times it's up to me to say, hey, you know, I've got a, I want to go somewhere else or do something else. And there's a nice way to kind of and that or like steer the conversation in another way. But it's I think it's on it's a great point. It's on both people, not just the talker, but the listener to say, Hey, I just need the bullet points are like, Hey, I'm just here for a cocktail. Don't want to hear about your kids.

Kristin Wood  
Yeah, I was doing that in this text group I was in and people were putting so much detail on I was like, Can we just get to the point I don't want to be jerk. I don't care about all that but like, can we just get to the point of what we're on this group text about? No. I'm not normally like that. But group texts can be a lot. Sometimes it can get overwhelming. That's a side note.

Ralph Andracchio  
It's yeah, it's it's being able to get a feel for the space you're in and the group you're in and noticing Oh, yes, this is a place to tell those longer stories. It seems like people are sharing more information great. Or if it's like, nope, everybody just wants the bullet points. What time do I have to be there? What am I wearing? Great, awesome. Let's do this. There's different situations that require different communication styles and skills. And again, it just comes back to taking a breath and saying okay, what what is this space all about? What is this conversation about? Is it so let's share our feeling conversation or is this just give me the bullet points and we're good to go?

Kristin Wood  
Or Should this be a conversation or not? I mean, one of the things that I try to pay attention to is like everyone doesn't want to chit chat with Kristin like it happened...

Ralph Andracchio  
Who are these people?

Kristin Wood  
...It happened in my Lyft today. And I think I do it a lot. Unconsciously I'm sure I missed it a ton and it drive people crazy, but I don't always chat with a Lyft driver. But I got in today and I think it was feeling like I want to chat a little I don't know, but I got in and I was just like, oh, how are you today? You know, that's normal. And he was like, Fine, or whatever. And then I was like, I really liked your car. Sometimes I check out cars when I'm in lifts because it's like, oh, this is a chance to get another car. Not that I'm in the market. But you know, I was like, oh it really this is a really nice car. Do you like it? And he was like, yeah, like it and then I was like, okay, that's that coffee. That was like to me, he answered and he was very polite, but it was not like he was he wasn't right. Right. And I was like, okay, and that was perfectly fine. But I think you know, I could easily just keep talking to him, but I try not to you don't want to be that person. It's like being on a plane with somebody right? We had people complain about having that person that won't shut up next to them. I don't want to be that person. So sometimes I'll just be a little friendly or read the body language. And I'll gauge it. And then if, you know if there's a natural flow, we have a conversation if there's not then you read your book and shut up.

Ralph Andracchio  
There's also a cultural aspect of this too, that I that I think it's important to mention, because you're talking about travel on airplanes and everything like we come into contact with people who don't share our backgrounds are raised, you know, as we were and I have to remind myself of this, too, is like, especially with Americans just because we have a very America centric view of the world. Not everybody's American. Not everybody's raised to like smile and wave and chit chat. It's a very American thing to do that a lot of countries don't do that. A lot of cultures don't do that. And I Is it impossible then to have a conversation with somebody who's not part of your culture? Absolutely not, you can. It's just again, reading the space and saying, oh, okay, this seems like this person is communicating this type of way. Great. I can adjust accordingly. And you will usually find in time, a kind of equilibrium where you find the space where you're both comfortable and you know, things start flowing a little better, but it takes it takes somebody again to be that I don't want to keep saying adult in the room, but it takes that person being a little bit more level headed and kind of like the voice of reason to take a breath and say, you know, what's the best way to continue this conversation? If at all like you said.

Kristin Wood  
That was a good point. I'm glad you brought that up it culturally there's so many we could do a whole other episode on that. Not that I'm privy or knowledgeable on all the different cultural communication styles, but, but it's another piece to throw in there that I think is important that sometimes we might think we know what we're doing. I'm sure I have. And there's a whole other cultural piece to it that we're not privy to keeping that in mind before we jump off and say someone's rude or someone says or someone's that. There could be a lot of different reasons why somebody doesn't respond the way you want them to.

Ralph Andracchio  
Right and and I what cut what keeps coming into my brain is like, what we're saying is not going to work. For every conversation because there are tough conversations out there that are just tough in general. You know, I keep I keep coming back to kids coming out to their parents or like, you know, talking about big life changes in within families or within friend groups. You know, those those are just tough conversations no matter what. And I think everybody coming in with best intentions and trying to actively listen to each other to get the best outcome. You know, what we're sending is not going to work in every conversation, but I think I think the main points apply across the board. I just wanted to throw that out there because I know I can hear listeners being like, well, you can't do this all the time.

Kristin Wood  
Well nothing you were saying works all the time. Just noting some important things that were so knowledgeable about.

Ralph Andracchio  
Right? And also you know, the thing about being right having to be right all the time. I know I put it into not being heard but a lot of you know we're not right all the time. We're human beings the only the only thing that's right all the time is that Zol tar from big where he like made the wish. That's the only thing that's right all the time. Is that box with Saltanat fortuneteller, a broken like that I remember that's the only thing that's right. Everything else we're human being we're going to be wrong. Probably most of the time. But you know what, that's the way that's how we learn and grow. You that's that's the whole point of and I you know, I go back to my teacher, my class, but sometimes I have to remind people, this is why we take class. This is why we have practices every week. This is your space to make mistakes. This is your space to try stuff out. And then we talk about it, why it worked, why it didn't work, what we can do. Better. You know, that's how humans learn. We get it wrong, and we trip and fall on our face, but we can back up and say hey, I'm not doing that again. Look how that turned out. You know, so it's okay to be wrong. Nobody's right all the time. And if your ego or hubris won't let you be wrong, then that's a you problem. And you got to look within yourself and figure that stuff out. Because that's, that's an issue. That's another issue. That's a whole other issue.

Kristin Wood  
And I think when it comes to your feelings, they're not right or wrong. They just are and your feelings aren't necessarily more important than the other person's feelings. But I think that sounds very simple, but we don't do it.

Ralph Andracchio  
That's that's the other thing. A lot of this stuff is simple. It's It's simple

Kristin Wood  
Simple in writing and simple and like theory, or whatever the word is, but actually doing what we're talking about is not always simple. 

Ralph Andracchio  
The messiest thing in the universe, I think is human emotions. They gum up the works constantly. And being able to measure them. Put them aside, notice them shelve them, you know, whatever counseling tool you would like to use to address you're put them in a box I've heard a ton of them. Fancy box by the way, with a nice lid. That's that's how I pictured it.

Kristin Wood  
Fancy or not, they're not staying in there forever.

Ralph Andracchio  
But also noting, knowing, you know, human emotions are are a B word. You know, they are their feelings. Feelings ball, right? And knowing that they're there, they're messy. They're always going to be messy, but being able to in some way put them aside and say you know what, I'm going to try to be as logical and wisdom minded as I can be in this in this conversation goes a long way. This is another topic I feel like we could literally talk about, oh my god, we could we could go on tour with this topic.

Kristin Wood  
Oh yeah we could... stage and everything.

Ralph Andracchio  
Oh my god. That would be my dream come true. But we need to stay at nice hotels.

Kristin Wood  
I would want, like a microphone with rhinestones on it.

Ralph Andracchio  
You would want a Barbra Streisand microphone when she I don't know why this popped into my head but when she was on Oprah Winfrey Show like back in the day in the 90s or something she came out with this white microphone and she sang a song and everybody was going nuts and losing their brains. And Oprah was like after after she was done. Oprah was like, is that one of my microphones? And she was like, Yeah, it's like, how did you get a white one? Did you paint it? She's like, Yeah. I'm Barbra Streisand.

Kristin Wood  
Oprah's not worried about the fact that she was one of the best singers in history. Oprah's fixated on the microphone.

Ralph Andracchio  
I would have said the same thing. Did you paint one of my microphones? I don't care who you are... Barbra Streisand.

Kristin Wood  
That's why she's Oprah and everyone loves her, she kept it real with Bar.

Ralph Andracchio  
Barb. BRB. I think I think we've beat this topic into the ground.

Kristin Wood  
We've given everybody a wealth of information.

Ralph Andracchio  
If you have any questions, you want to push back on anything you want to share. Any any tips you have about the conversation, any squirrel tips are greatly appreciated. Send them along to us. heyletmeaskyousomething (all one word) @gmail.com. The links to our respective social medias are in the show notes for this episode, so check those out.

Ralph Andracchio  
Enjoy your week, and we'll see you next time.

Kristin Wood  
See you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai